Progressives aren't quite sure how to deal with Jill Stein
The spat between AOC and Jill Stein comes after years of progressives growing their ranks within the Democratic Party.
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Just Ignore Jill she represents almost no one. It is just not that hard.
Even Ralph Nader, the most recognized and influential figure in Jill's party said he wouldn't vote for her. (The article is from before Biden dropped out, but none of his reasons for voting Biden are invalidated by a Harris ticket.)
Even fellow Greens are smart enough to see that a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump — and what a danger that is to American democracy.
Now that Nader fellow seems like he’s got a good head on his shoulders
a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump
this is election misinformation. it's illegal to count a vote for one candidate as a vote for another.
Yeah that's not what they meant.
Just Ignore Jill she represents almost no one
Well, it definitely seems as if the news and the democratic party isn't ignoring her.
Yeah they are. It's all pretty laughable. Everyone is aware that voting third party is throwing your vote away and this election is far too important for anyone serious to do that.
Every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
This is your new schtick? Pathetic.
It's logic I learned from Lemmy. And it's accurate.
And it’s accurate.
It's the opposite of accurate. It's dumb as shit and what does it say about you that you don't recognize that?
I think your comment of "It’s the opposite of accurate" is actually the opposite of accurate.
I'm wondering though, what does it say about you that you don’t recognize that? I hope you figure it out. Thanks, friend!
Everyone is aware that voting third party is throwing your vote away and this election is far too important for anyone serious to do that.
So was the last election ok to for third party? How about the one before that? And is the next one, when Trump Jr runs, ok for us vote third party then?
So just THIS 2024 election we shouldn't. But the other ones are ok. Right?
So just THIS 2024 election we shouldn’t. But the other ones are ok. Right?
If this election goes wrong it might be the last real one we get so, yes. Right.
yes. Right.
So we can definitely vote 3rd party the next election? I just want to make sure we are on the same page.
I mean, I'm still voting 3rd party this election, but it'll be good that you can calm down being so mad about it when I continue to post third party news after the upcoming election. You can finally relax!
So was it ok to vote 3rd party in 2016? And 2020? Or is just THIS election that we shouldn't?
we shouldn’t
Anyone can vote for anyone they see fit in any election. If that means voting 3rd party in this election, then it means throwing away an actually meaningful vote.
I'm not mad? What makes you say that? You do seem to like to twist my comments. It's one of the many reasons I don't trust you and question your motives.
Anyone can vote for anyone they see fit in any election.
Oh ok, so you DO support and respect peoples right to vote for who they want to, even in THIS election. Right?
Just wanna clear the air.
It’s one of the many reasons I don’t trust you and question your motives.
Yeah? So what do you think my motives are?
what do you think my motives are?
Unimportant
So if my motives are so lame as to be unimportant, then surely I don't have much influence over things. So I may as well just post what I want when I want. And you don't have to feel worried about any votes. And we can be friends now, right?!
2008 was pretty safe. 2012 too. Every election since then, it's been too close and the stakes too high.
So not just THIS election then.
Doesn't matter tho. I'm still voting third party. And I've created a community that allows even more diversity in political opinion including more republican and third party posts, in addition to democrat posts. So you may wanna block me now and save yourself the frustration.
If it doesn't matter, why even ask the question?
You seem confused, how can I best help you?
You ask for criteria on when it's too important to vote 3rd party. I give you criteria. You say, it doesn't matter, I'm still voting 3rd party. What was the point of that whole interaction if nothing could possibly change your mind?
Does anything I say ever change your mind?
It'll be okay to vote third party (in a social sense since it's already allowed legally) when we change the election systems that we use so that third party votes are not spoiler votes. Let's abandon First Past the Post and use something like Ranked Choice Voting or better.
Let’s abandon First Past the Post
Sure, but the dem party and the repub party don't want to really change that.
So let's put pressure on our government to do that instead of trying to shoot ourselves in the foot.
By voting third party we ARE pressuring our gov to do that.
No, you're just making it easier for the fascists to win.
Every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
I already explained to you why that's bullshit. I can only assume that because you're bringing it up again 4 days later, that your intention is to waste my time.
We'd have the first past the post (FPTP) issue in every election, so in that one sense, no.
However, a lot of folks feel that it's the specific GOP candidate who's a threat. They also make an assumption that if he lost this time, then he wouldn't be able to run again in a presidential election in the US in the future (for being too old, for having lost twice, perhaps for being in jail, etc).
I feel like the assumption part is too optimistic, and so in 2028 the same set of arguments will come out. And then they'll say we've done this in the last three elections in a row, so we know it works, that's why we gotta keep doing it.
And perhaps that's the true danger - that resistance to 3rd party choices in general becomes normalized.
TLDR - FPTP is bad.
And perhaps that’s the true danger - that resistance to 3rd party choices in general becomes normalized.
Exactly! Great post.
Why are you even worrying about elections other than the one in front of us? Droning about past elections and ones beyond the one in front of us isn’t going to win anybody over. What’s done is done and what is not in front of us is irrelevant.
It’s just what it is.
Why are you even worrying about elections other than the one in front of us?
Because every election since as long as I have been voting, people say variations of "Well voting third party is fine, but not THIS election. THIS election is too important!"
Which is what the OP I was replying to said.
I've been voting since 1988. And i have heard this every election. So guess what? I've decided that this election isn't any more or less important than any election. And I'm proudly voting third party. :)
It’s just what it is.
Rabble rabble. You know what it means.
Actually I don't know what that means. Which is why I said it in my last post.
Digitty is doggity dog. You got it!
Are you ok?
Yea! Now you have the groove! Now you try!
Right? I imagine Stein and the Green party would prefer that - rather than having to go to court all the time to make a case for why they should remain on the ballot.